A Ray of Hope?

Not of Peace, but with a Conscience?

Published on September 5, 2004 By pseudosoldier In Current Events

I've hated reading some of greywar's articles for awhile now: the Religion of Peace series.
It's because he's damned persuasive. It's a dark, dark world, and it's easy to think bad things about a lot of people. I'm the resident Arabologist (and part-time Arabiaphile) of our little group, so I don't like to think bad things about my subject matter, as it were...

Link
This article, however, is just the type of article that I need to push back the darkness, and convince myself that there are kernels of good spread out in the world. People, not all people, but some people, they have consciences. *Whew*

Reading it a bit deeper, yeah, this is pretty refreshing. I hope grey sees this... but I think I may print it out and take it into work, just to make sure.

Comments (Page 3)

Manopeace

on Sep 08, 2004

All I can add to this is something I once overheard in Brooklyn...." As long as they are bashing Muslims, they are leaving the Jews alone."

that quote more or less shows the stupidity of bashing any group!

Muggaz

on Sep 08, 2004

Incidentally, muggaz, one of the reasons this irritates me so much is I have seen Christians blamed for the holocaust many times, and I have NOT ONCE seen you step forward and demand that Christians not be so blamed.

Ok Gid - here is something you may not know - I am a baptized Christian, I have renounced my faith though... also, I refuse to blame Christianity for the Holocaust, because that is the same as blaming Islam for Sept 11 - I was not alive during the Holocaust, but I was alive during 9/11. Christianity does not need my defense - anyone who blames Christianity for the unfortunate event of the holocaust is a moron - and I will tell them as much.

There is a decided bias in my defense though, because more often than not, it is the Crusaders - the Christians, that are the ones pointing the fingers squarly at Islam, rather than the individuals who commit the acts - I blame Hitler and the Nazi's for the Holocaust, just like I blame bin Laden and Al-Quada for Sept 11 - not Christianity or Islam respectively.

I know you personally take great strides to distance the religion from these propostorous crimes - and don't think it doesn't go un-noticed - I haven't attacked your articles once, as they are well thought out, and they are attacking the incident, not the faith behind it - that is the common denominator in my rebuttals.

The statements I beleive you are referring to don't condone terrorism - it is merely a form of understanding - I can see why people would think as much though, and I digress. I also think it's a bit unfair of you to say terrorism is the Aussie flavor of the day because of 3 bloggers, out of a nation of 20,000,000 people.

I hope this little debate has given you some insite into my brain - I hate violence, I cannot condone it - I in no way support terrorism, but I dont support flaming Islam based on the actions of seperatists who happen to be muslim. I find it hard to beleive that these terrorist could justify an attack on a school based on their faith - I beleive they justified it on Russian brutality over hundreds of years - this in no way justifies it to us, but to them, you have to question the motives when individuals are sick enough to attack and kill school children - what drove them to this madness? I dont think it was Allah, just like i don't think it was God who drove Hitler to his madness.

BAM!!!

Suspeckted

on Sep 08, 2004

Reply #24 By: pseudosoldier - 9/7/2004 10:52:26 PM
Suspekted - Yet, he's not claiming that, merely using that title to draw in readers. Hyperbole for the sake of sensationalism, for the sake of newspaper sales. If you wish to say that his actual message is obfuscated by his overstated title, fine, I can concede that point easily. His underlying message is not necessarily as sweeping as the title makes it seem.

I guess that's all I was getting at. I think if someone in any major american publication were to make such an outward lie, (or at best, misleading) in their headline just to grab readers' attentions then they would be subject to great criticism. Though I have not done my homework on this one. Perhaps writers do this all the time without my noticing.

Everyone who has bombed an abortion clinic probably votes republican but I'm not about to write an article "All Abortion Clinic Terrorists are Republicans!"

greywar

on Sep 08, 2004

but I dont support flaming Islam based on the actions of seperatists who happen to be muslim.

I hate violence, I cannot condone it

[scorn] How about flaming it based on the overwhelming preponderance of Muslim's commiting terrorist acts around the globe? Again lemme know when a Lutheran straps explosives to his body and bombs a bus full of school kids. Oh right the Palestinians are just "separatists" too they have nothing to do with rampant militant Islamism. Al-qaeda or The Mahdi Army too! heck according to Moore they are just like the "minutemen". [/scorn]

Gideon MacLeish

on Sep 08, 2004

Muggaz,

I don't fault you for defending Islam as a whole. But when you state an allegiance with the concept of declaring a fatwah (as a hypothetical, let's say you supported the idea of putting a fatwah on greywar), then you are allying yourself with the TERRORISTS, not with the innocent peace loving Muslims. As for your assertion that you will tell someone they are a moron for blaming the holocaust on Christians, that's bunk. I have seen you participate on several threads where that charge was levelled and NOT ONCE have you called out the person making the accusation. And yet, every time someone insinuates that a bombing perpetuated by someone who claimed to be a Muslim was indeed perpetuated by someone who claimed to be a Muslim, you call out the person stating that.

You don't see your bias here, muggaz, because it is exactly that--your bias. I have tiptoed around the statements I have made about Islam in here and have been VERY careful to phrase things in a way that made it clear I was speaking about the terrorists, not about Islam itself.

If you need an example of your hypocrisy--how much time have you spent supporting Tracy Givens' blog since you went in there and swore to protect him against big bad old me? I have left more replies than you have, and I haven't left that many!

Muggaz

on Sep 08, 2004

But when you state an allegiance with the concept of declaring a fatwah

I stated no allegience with radicals declaring a fatwa - I merely acknowledged I could see why they would - why can't people get that into their heads? It's the fact I KNOW radicals are insane that i KNOW they would declare a fatwa if the saw the article in question? are you saying they wouldn't? are you saying I am a blithering idiot?

have seen you participate on several threads where that charge was levelled and NOT ONCE have you called out the person making the accusation. And yet, every time someone insinuates that a bombing perpetuated by someone who claimed to be a Muslim was indeed perpetuated by someone who claimed to be a Muslim, you call out the person stating that.

Ok - I will call people from now on - I admit it hasn't been at the forefront of any of my arguments... and I haven't really seen it as much as I perhaps should have... The sad truth here is there are plenty of Christians to defend such accusations, yet there are no Muslims, I dont know what it is, but I feel oblidged to defend the Muslims, otherwise violent rhetoric will go un-abaited towards them all day long... I cant explain why I haven't defended the Christians... but like I said before - they are the ones doing the attacking towards Islam a majority of the time - I certainly dont attack the Christians.

If you need an example of your hypocrisy--how much time have you spent supporting Tracy Givens' blog since you went in there and swore to protect him against big bad old me? I have left more replies than you have, and I haven't left that many!

Not once, because I realised it was stupid - he doesn't need protection, and as is pointed out by the jaded among us, I have no moral authority over anyone - if he needs protection, the admins can do it.

Like I said greywar - if they were Lutheran the fact wouldn't even be brought up. For every Muslim that is radical, there are probably 1000 that aren't... it's those 1000 that I waste my time arguing for... not the imbecile who blows up stuff.

As a side note, I would like to apologise for the Timothy McVeigh remark on the other thread - bad assumption.

BAM!!!

Gideon MacLeish

on Sep 09, 2004

I stated no allegience with radicals declaring a fatwa - I merely acknowledged I could see why they would

no, you said that if you were Muslim, you would declare an edict on greywar's head. This has been repeatedly QUOTED, yet you twist your own words.

Not once, because I realised it was stupid

As did I, long before you, hence the subject of my post. But you didn't admit that your premature jumping off the handle at the post was misinformed.

Incidentally, I have compiled some pretty compelling stats on Islam and terror on my blog, mugz. I'd like you to take a look and see what you think of my analysis.

Muggaz

on Sep 09, 2004

As did I, long before you, hence the subject of my post. But you didn't admit that your premature jumping off the handle at the post was misinformed.

*sit in corner with dunce hat on*

no, you said that if you were Muslim, you would declare an edict on greywar's head. This has been repeatedly QUOTED, yet you twist your own words.

I am not a Muslim - is that fact escaping everyone?

Incidentally, I have compiled some pretty compelling stats on Islam and terror on my blog, mugz. I'd like you to take a look and see what you think of my analysis.

Done, done and done

BAM!!!

greywar

on Sep 09, 2004

As a side note, I would like to apologise for the Timothy McVeigh remark on the other thread - bad assumption.

too fucking late and too fucking little. Mark it, I will never even ackowledge another post or article your post here. Ever. Support a Fatwa against me firstthen tell me i am a Tim McVeigh supporter when I actively fight the War on Terror everyday? Fuck you and everyone like you.

Suspeckted

on Sep 10, 2004

Way to send a thunderstorm to block out that ray of hope greywar.

Muggaz

on Sep 10, 2004

Acknowledge this mate... hostility gets you no where...

Carry on.

BAM!!!

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